In 2016, I met a white nationalist who had come to his ideology via Buddhism and New Age spirituality. He said he was launching an alt-right fraternity. Did I want to join?
He did not. My impression was that he was not married at the time we were talking, back in 2016, 2017, just before he cut off contact. But I can't be certain.
Thought provoking. Those mystical beginnings from Gurdjieff's teachings to SGI are considered cults. I wonder if the alt-right/nazis should be considered another cult too.
It’s an epidemic of isolation and loneliness that causes so much of this. People want desperately to connect to others but they end up being manipulated by the types of people who are seeking followers, not real connections. That allows them to become indoctrinated.
I agree. There's also a level of lostness out there, particularly among young men, desperate for meaning and purpose. I often think that mainstream religion will make a comeback for exactly these reasons, to give us the cohesion we need, to alleviate the isolation and the drift that so many people feel.
So insightful and I appreciate the historical lens.
Amazing and brave! It felt like I should run away from the telling of this, but I stayed because it's such a unique story and written beautifully! Thank you, Sanjiv!
(Also, the "baddies" clip had me rolling on the floor.)
Excellent essay, Sanj. So thought provoking. I get the sense that many of the people who have been radicalized on the far right are dealing with some kind of untreated trauma. At least, I know that to be true for the people in my life. Their rhetoric seems to stem from anger and fear. I wonder if you got any sense of that from Eric? Sounds like his childhood was pretty idyllic, though he did grow up in a religious household. The empath in me wants to understand these people and to figure out how they got this way, but I also get very frustrated and angered by their cruelty. During the fires, one of my brother's extreme right friends was posting all this stuff about a DEI hire mayor and "California Voted For This" and he's allegedly a devout person. I told him that this was a time to reach out and see how we can help people and that if his house was on fire, I would offer him my couch. I don't know if I got through to him, but I didn't unfriend him and I tried to remind him of the person he used to be.
Thanks Hilary. You could be right about the untreated trauma, but he didn't let on, if so. it wouldn't surprise me. There is a sense among people like Eric that they have been blamed for sins they didn't commit, and their status and standing in society is falling across the board. It's more about the culture than the economy, it's an emotional response more than anything else. I think the left hasn't been particularly empathetic either, because straight white men like Eric have been blamed for the oppression of all minorities, but it's led to quite a lot of fear - Eric is afraid of becoming a minority and an underclass in America because of his race. He sees how minorities struggle and he sees a spirit of revenge in the left. These are not simple issues. I think you're so right though, about cruelty - that at least ought to be something both sides can agree on! Is your brother's right wing friend from LA, was he affected by the fires?
I met him in high school in Northern California, but he claimed that his family had roots in Alta Dena and that he knew people affected by the fires. He got defensive when I called his behavior “shameful,” and said, “So you think you’re better than me?” I mean, it felt like a fight with a child. I calmly explained that I didn’t think that I was better than him and that I respected his faith and that if his house was on fire, I would offer him shelter because that’s what family and community do. I think that shut him up for a while, but some of his friends had piled on and one of them at tagged me and posted a meme of a Covid test that said, “Your test results came back” and the word “Retarded” was printed on the test. So, you know, dealing with the brain trust.
Another great piece. So many standout observations here, and a willingness to confront discomforting truths about warring ideologies and how they play out. One small detail stays with me - the visible fold marks in Eric's flag he's hung behind himself for the photo. I'd say it's brand new and he's hung it up on display specially for the shot, wouldn't you? All part of the performance, along with the robe - and an illustration of the gap between theorising and reality; how people love to wax lyrical about how they would behave in an imagined set of circumstances, and how they actually behave when push comes to shove.
Thank you Cate. What a great observation about the flag! I hadn't thought about it but I'm sure you're right. There's so much cosplay going on with these embattled groups, the performance of identity. And trolling too, it's all a game at first, of triggering the libs with your hand gestures and symbols, and next thing you know, you're holding a tiki torch, and it's all about to get very ugly indeed.
Isn't this just a story about failure to pursuade. There's no sign that wokeness and canceling led this guy to reject the brown guy from the group and then go participate in a violent hate rally. It was his own friends.
Did we forget to learn something from Neville Chamberlain?
You're right, it's absolutely about a failure to persuade. But not just that. It was the change in the climate from talking to Nazis to punching them that dissuaded his friends from going any further with our story. That's not to say he could have been persuaded not to participate in Charlottesville, there's so many other factors. But wokeness made persuasion much harder, if not impossible. I think we should always engage with the people we disagree with. This is a democracy, a free country, we are in this together. That's not appeasement, it's just dialogue. Appreciate your comment.
You can be relied on to shine lights where I would never look. Your article is not comforting but it is enlightening. Thanks for doing this and Yikes!!!
May I ask when this article was written?
Did he mention his wife at all?
He did not. My impression was that he was not married at the time we were talking, back in 2016, 2017, just before he cut off contact. But I can't be certain.
So the interview is from 2016-2017 but posted in January 2025? Ok. Great article and great writing. Thanks.
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Hi Janet - the piece was posted Jan 27th of this year, is that what you're asking?
I know him.
Thought provoking. Those mystical beginnings from Gurdjieff's teachings to SGI are considered cults. I wonder if the alt-right/nazis should be considered another cult too.
Thanks Autumn, that's a great point. The more I got to know Eric, the more it felt like the only way out for him was to be deprogrammed somehow.
It’s an epidemic of isolation and loneliness that causes so much of this. People want desperately to connect to others but they end up being manipulated by the types of people who are seeking followers, not real connections. That allows them to become indoctrinated.
I agree. There's also a level of lostness out there, particularly among young men, desperate for meaning and purpose. I often think that mainstream religion will make a comeback for exactly these reasons, to give us the cohesion we need, to alleviate the isolation and the drift that so many people feel.
So insightful and I appreciate the historical lens.
Amazing and brave! It felt like I should run away from the telling of this, but I stayed because it's such a unique story and written beautifully! Thank you, Sanjiv!
(Also, the "baddies" clip had me rolling on the floor.)
Thank you Rhony, glad you stuck with it! And yes, that baddies clip is a classic.
Excellent essay, Sanj. So thought provoking. I get the sense that many of the people who have been radicalized on the far right are dealing with some kind of untreated trauma. At least, I know that to be true for the people in my life. Their rhetoric seems to stem from anger and fear. I wonder if you got any sense of that from Eric? Sounds like his childhood was pretty idyllic, though he did grow up in a religious household. The empath in me wants to understand these people and to figure out how they got this way, but I also get very frustrated and angered by their cruelty. During the fires, one of my brother's extreme right friends was posting all this stuff about a DEI hire mayor and "California Voted For This" and he's allegedly a devout person. I told him that this was a time to reach out and see how we can help people and that if his house was on fire, I would offer him my couch. I don't know if I got through to him, but I didn't unfriend him and I tried to remind him of the person he used to be.
Thanks Hilary. You could be right about the untreated trauma, but he didn't let on, if so. it wouldn't surprise me. There is a sense among people like Eric that they have been blamed for sins they didn't commit, and their status and standing in society is falling across the board. It's more about the culture than the economy, it's an emotional response more than anything else. I think the left hasn't been particularly empathetic either, because straight white men like Eric have been blamed for the oppression of all minorities, but it's led to quite a lot of fear - Eric is afraid of becoming a minority and an underclass in America because of his race. He sees how minorities struggle and he sees a spirit of revenge in the left. These are not simple issues. I think you're so right though, about cruelty - that at least ought to be something both sides can agree on! Is your brother's right wing friend from LA, was he affected by the fires?
I met him in high school in Northern California, but he claimed that his family had roots in Alta Dena and that he knew people affected by the fires. He got defensive when I called his behavior “shameful,” and said, “So you think you’re better than me?” I mean, it felt like a fight with a child. I calmly explained that I didn’t think that I was better than him and that I respected his faith and that if his house was on fire, I would offer him shelter because that’s what family and community do. I think that shut him up for a while, but some of his friends had piled on and one of them at tagged me and posted a meme of a Covid test that said, “Your test results came back” and the word “Retarded” was printed on the test. So, you know, dealing with the brain trust.
They sound just charming! Btw, my two cents, you definitely are better than him.
Aww. Thanks, Sanj!
Another great piece. So many standout observations here, and a willingness to confront discomforting truths about warring ideologies and how they play out. One small detail stays with me - the visible fold marks in Eric's flag he's hung behind himself for the photo. I'd say it's brand new and he's hung it up on display specially for the shot, wouldn't you? All part of the performance, along with the robe - and an illustration of the gap between theorising and reality; how people love to wax lyrical about how they would behave in an imagined set of circumstances, and how they actually behave when push comes to shove.
Thank you Cate. What a great observation about the flag! I hadn't thought about it but I'm sure you're right. There's so much cosplay going on with these embattled groups, the performance of identity. And trolling too, it's all a game at first, of triggering the libs with your hand gestures and symbols, and next thing you know, you're holding a tiki torch, and it's all about to get very ugly indeed.
Isn't this just a story about failure to pursuade. There's no sign that wokeness and canceling led this guy to reject the brown guy from the group and then go participate in a violent hate rally. It was his own friends.
Did we forget to learn something from Neville Chamberlain?
You're right, it's absolutely about a failure to persuade. But not just that. It was the change in the climate from talking to Nazis to punching them that dissuaded his friends from going any further with our story. That's not to say he could have been persuaded not to participate in Charlottesville, there's so many other factors. But wokeness made persuasion much harder, if not impossible. I think we should always engage with the people we disagree with. This is a democracy, a free country, we are in this together. That's not appeasement, it's just dialogue. Appreciate your comment.
You can be relied on to shine lights where I would never look. Your article is not comforting but it is enlightening. Thanks for doing this and Yikes!!!
Thank you Jennifer, much appreciated!